Rafale 4 EF2000 0

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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby jwcook on 22 Dec 2009 03:43

Jon Lake wrote:Nor do I concur with the idea that Typhoon is 'doing well' at the moment.

I still believe that when both aircraft fully meet their 'brochure promises', Typhoon will be a significantly superior A-A aeroplane, but with all of the problems, immaturity, and delays and development challenges (all of which we should have been entitled to expect to have been solved by now), I do think that Rafale enjoys an edge in near term 'customer appeal'. It's a narrow edge, as Rafale has its own challenges, but I do perceive that Rafale has some momentum.


I was under the impression that the availability had improved somewhat, the reliability was now much better as originally spares were a big issue. (has the amount of cannibalisation been reduced, oris the old contract still in force).

The program is still held back by the multination effect, but when you consider what would have happened if it was a one nation affair it would have never have got to production.

The AtoG implementation is still very slow, but this looks due only to money, and programs with much more momentum are finding it just as hard to get any funding.

The area where I thought the Typhoon was doing well was in the exercises with other nations, they seem readily deployable and seem to be on top of things in regard to DACT.. unless you've heard different, Dass seems to be OK, the radar modes Ok, helmet is having problems, and helmet weight is still an issue (whats the occurrences of neck problems like now? have you noticed the aircrew all have necks like a pro wrestlers now? counter balanced with legs like twiggy :D.

Is the newer incremental upgrade program any better than the block upgrades that were the previous bottleneck?, or has it turned into a waiting game where each waits for the other nation to fund an upgrade?

I keen to know so PM me if you don't want to broadcast it.

PS I'm also happy for the French to have their day in the sun, they have been waiting so long. (~595 years on St Crispins day :lol: )

Cheers

John
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby ohm1860 on 22 Dec 2009 06:59

swerve wrote:
ohm1860 wrote:...1- The UAE doesn't need a new fighter any soon as the brand new Block 60's with AESA will do any job they might require..

Nope. There is at least one job the UAE wants done, & paid handsomely to be able to do, which the USA will not allow it to use the F-16E for. That is, carrying long range air-ground missiles. The USA refused to sell them to the UAE, & refused to allow non-US missiles to be integrated onto the F-16E. The UAE invested in Black Shahine (a Scalp variant), carried on its Mirage 2000-9s. AFAIK this capability is still deemed essential, & if the Mirages are retired a replacement would be required. The missile would carry straight across to Rafale - but as I said, can not be used by the F-16E.




Thanks swerve , I didn't know that I mean Americans being such blithering idiots !
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby oldsoakmk2 on 22 Dec 2009 19:55

Are we about to sell France something major, and dont wish to jepordise anything ?

...shall I put the tinfoil hat away ? :lol:
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby ohm1860 on 23 Dec 2009 07:01

[quote="Jon Lake"]TMor,
I agree, Tom (it is Tom, yes?), they have been made by a serving AdlA officer at an open, official event, so like you, I view these as AdlA claims.

Ohm,
I believe that Brazil is a 'sure thing' for Rafale. It may be that there are reasons why some might think that it should not be, but politically, I believe it's unstoppable, and at the end of the day it's a political decision. And I have no problem with that, and I wish Dassault well with it.

Mr Lake,

Braking news ,Source Aviation week.

President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva of Brazil has postponed a decision on buying 36 jet fighters from any of the three rival bidders until early spring 2010 at the very earliest in a move analysts interpret as part of a strategy to extract maximum advantage over Brazil's long-term plan for extensive technology transfer.He cites a source familiar with the negotiations as saying that frankly, it is highly unlikely that a decision is taken before April which means that we are unlikely to see a decision before the end of the post-electoral grace period, towards April 2011.
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby jwcook on 23 Dec 2009 07:48

Well after announcing the Rafale as the winner, perhaps a little break is in order to stop the lawsuits flying thick and fast.
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby Jon Lake on 23 Dec 2009 10:00

Ah, but has he delayed his decision, or delayed announcing a decision made years ago?
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby AVON on 24 Dec 2009 00:49

The talk now that is that all is not what it appears to be. Could this be the latest "Cope India" type exercise with this year's star the Rafale (as opposed to the Su-30 being the star in Cope India 2004)? Once the rules of engagement (RoEs) are explained or released, a fair evaluation can be obtained. Until then, a leak of information here or there will not mean to much.
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby TMor on 24 Dec 2009 10:11

But this is not a "leak".

A leak is when someone get an information from somebody unofficially.

In this actual case, the ADA said (during an official press conference) that Rafale won its engagements against Typhoon. With numbers (4-0, 3-1), and explaining the imposed limitations.

I perfectly understand that you're waiting for a revenge, that you believe (as i do) that Typhoon is able to defeat Rafale too (especially the pilots). But do not call those declarations "a leak".
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby Jon Lake on 24 Dec 2009 10:15

Or is it the case that one side thought that the other was operating according to an agreed RoE, and the other side didn't.

Just speculating.... ;)
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Re: Rafale 4 EF2000 0

New postby AVON on 27 Dec 2009 00:17

TMor wrote:In this actual case, the ADA said (during an official press conference) that Rafale won its engagements against Typhoon. With numbers (4-0, 3-1), and explaining the imposed limitations.

What were the imposed limitations, please? I have not seen anything that approaches an official press release eplaining the RoE's.
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